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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2008, 11:07 AM
irb irb is offline
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I'm assuming that he feels government should exist solely to protect property and enforce rudimentary criminal law.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2008, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrewste View Post
I know, right! Stupid emancipation proclamation!
The Emancipation Proclamation really didn't do anything...it took Congress and the Thirteenth Amendment to end slavery. Not to mention the suspension of habeus corpus. Lincoln is a little overrated, imo.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verticalslope View Post

I will take anyone on this forum to school on economics. Period.
I'm more of a protectionist but I'd be interested to hear your free market argument...
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 06:18 PM
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Vertical you there? I was kind of hoping we'd be able to discuss this more .
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrewste View Post
I know, right! Stupid emancipation proclamation!
Tell me your joking.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 09:12 PM
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I am a Hillary supporter...
I dont really want to argue about anything, just my opinion.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 10:26 PM
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FOX News forum excluded Ron Paul.

Things got funny outside a FOX News tent.

YouTube - Video: Ron Paul supporters protest his exclusion from forum

Haha then they chased Hannity down the street.

LiveLeak.com - Sean Hannity on the run

edit: lol'd

Sean Hannity Sucks Ass - AOL Video


Last edited by Jake; 01-08-2008 at 10:44 PM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
Not to get too off-topic, but saying "Government is a negative thing" carries implications it doesn't seem you've considered.

If we didn't have government, what incentive would there be for people to not steal, or shoot someone to get what they have?

If we didn't have government, who would ensure subgroups of our populace (let's say corporations) didn't take advantage of consumers [more than they already do]?

Sans government, who's going to help keep business from forming monopolies and exploiting the population?

Without government, who's going to protect children who live in abusive homes?

I think saying "government is evil" is a very shortsighted and easy route out. We need government in some way, shape or form to protect us from each other. Sure, individually there may be a lot of good people, but there are always bad apples, and unless we have some sort of organized way of enforcing rules "for the good of everyone," especially with our world in the state it's in, we'd be SOL.

My ending disclaimer, though, is that I'm not advocating the type of government we presently have, and I do agree that government should be "By the people, for the people." So change is undoubtedly needed. I just think tossing government completely would pretty much guarantee the population's failure.
Protection? Guns. They're easy to use... They lower crime, massacres occur in gun-free zones..

Corporations wouldn't take advantage of consumers, they really don't-- the ones that are/have done/doing it -- the cause is govt. related like contracts, taxes, forced monopoly, regulation.. See: Competition.

99% of business charge .50 for shoes... 1% charge .30.. Eventually they will lower their price, even if they change to lower the price so low so it puts them out of business-- it works for the consumer since someone else could replace them. etc.

Children.. Usually the police rarely find out without help from someone else about abuse.. replace police with different orgs. --there you go. A private court system could take of this as well.

Govt. if it exists, should keep private property laws, maybe courts, um, that's all?

You're brainwashed from day one to depend on govt... Poor people can easily get an apartment with a minimum wage job and get an OK mutual fund too.. The free market would value the dollar higher as well..

Socialism is the antithesis of my being-- I can never vote Obama....

Drug, prostitution legalization etc. leads to creater wealth in the lower class.. The money is used to improve lifes so they can get better sources of income instead of the govt.'s income..
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titleist4life View Post
The Emancipation Proclamation really didn't do anything...it took Congress and the Thirteenth Amendment to end slavery. Not to mention the suspension of habeus corpus. Lincoln is a little overrated, imo.
And a racist..

He claimed that the war was about emancipating slaves, but he could have simply paid slave owners to free their slaves . . . . The bloodiest war in American history could have been avoided."

all the other countries of the world that ended slavery in the nineteenth century, including Britain, Spain, France, Denmark, the Dutch, did so without a war

"the rights of the states to secede from the Union . . . [are] clearly implicit in the Constitution, since it was the states that ratified the Constitution . . ."

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes." "Lincoln was more concerned about the failure of [the seceding] states to collect tariffs than he was about slavery, " says Napolitano.

"Lincoln was interested in promoting his political agenda of centralizing government power, and freeing the slaves was only a means of advancement of that end."

Abriged from: Judge Napolitano on Lincoln by Thomas DiLorenzo

Slavery was not efficient at all. It cost a lot to feed, buy, etc. slaves. The modern inventions replaced slaves into the next centuries.. Most of the South would likely join the Union again due to Mexico/economic help.... without 600,000 deaths, increased hatred towards blacks, rebuilding of the south and the abuses of the North during Reconstruction..
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titleist4life View Post
I'm more of a protectionist but I'd be interested to hear your free market argument...
Read this... I can find more scholarly articles if needed..

Free Trade… or Foul? by Gene Callahan
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
FOX News forum excluded Ron Paul.

Things got funny outside a FOX News tent.

YouTube - Video: Ron Paul supporters protest his exclusion from forum

Haha then they chased Hannity down the street.

LiveLeak.com - Sean Hannity on the run

edit: lol'd

Sean Hannity Sucks Ass - AOL Video

heh.. Perhaps that'll teach FOX not to exclude Dr. Paul again?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Vertical you there? I was kind of hoping we'd be able to discuss this more .
I'd rather a Republican president exist than a Democratic president, since I can't stand liberal policies, welfare, socialism, economic policies, global warming legislation, oil regulation, etc.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:07 PM
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You need to log on more often. As I was saying though, is there a candidate you support besides Dr. Paul?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
You need to log on more often. As I was saying though, is there a candidate you support besides Dr. Paul?
Whoever runs in the LP election or the the Republican nominee, but I can't find any names...Daffy Duck..
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verticalslope View Post
I'd rather a Republican president exist than a Democratic president, ...
Whoa, that's a surprise.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloake View Post
Whoa, that's a surprise.
Reading places like dailykos.com or any of these liberal bloggers-- its just hard and I cannot stand for these people to succeed or deal with the socialism/racial equality/equality/anti-corporation non-sense that comes from a Democratic president...... all those people from New Orleans.... just...puke.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verticalslope View Post
Protection? Guns. They're easy to use... They lower crime, massacres occur in gun-free zones..

I don't really know that much about the gun control debate, but are you saying that guns should be sold without requiring a license?

Corporations wouldn't take advantage of consumers, they really don't-- the ones that are/have done/doing it -- the cause is govt. related like contracts, taxes, forced monopoly, regulation.. See: Competition.

I saw you reference taxes in another thread as the rape of citizen's wealthy...but corporations do that on a govt sanctioned basis. I'm not talking about making a reasonable profit, but along the lines of an entire industry overcharging something- like OPEC, when they cut their production to drive up prices. And the healthcare industry is messed up, too.
Govt. if it exists, should keep private property laws, maybe courts, um, that's all?
Wait, are you against the Natl Park System, too?

You're brainwashed from day one to depend on govt... Poor people can easily get an apartment with a minimum wage job and get an OK mutual fund too.. The free market would value the dollar higher as well..

Socialism is the antithesis of my being-- I can never vote Obama....

Drug, prostitution legalization etc. leads to creater wealth in the lower class.. The money is used to improve lifes so they can get better sources of income instead of the govt.'s income..
Are you for drilling in ANWR? The one thing I really really think the govt should protect is the environment.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2008, 10:41 PM
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The idea that government is an ideal "protector" of resources has been a sick joke.

Have you seen the actual pictures of where the oil would be drilled? Give me a break. The environmental impacts would be minimal. Subdivisions do more damage than a safe oil field.....
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008, 12:05 AM
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Guns should be sold w/o license to anyone freely since a license is not that hard to obtain and anyone willing to spend 150-+++++ for a gun obviously knows something about them.. The license is just another tax.

Governments create monopolies... That's all. Without the govt. regulation, it'd be nearly impossible for a monopoly to exist.

Healthcare? haha... my system would cheapen it greatly.. Buy any Rx whenever you want, self-diagnosis, more nurses can do non-surgical things, anyone can do a surgery---if you trust them--- but private boards can do crediting... medical schools could pop up everywhere...

(I didn't see the bolden stuff, sorry)
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008, 03:45 PM
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Privatizing medical schools would also increase competition between the USA and Canada. This would allow new advances to be implemented after probably a period of degradation in quality during the transition... but the results could be amazing.
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